The Dateline Interview

(This fantastic transcript has been done by Jacqueline, Thanks alot that it can be on my site!! :-)

25 Years of People:  A Dateline Special
Aired March 1, 1999 on NBC
Interview by Stone Phillips
[-- means voice over with photos, clips, etc. displayed]

**Opens with clip of Vanessa Williams resigning as Miss America**
--Good-bye, Miss America--hello, Vanessa Williams.  The ultimate triple threat.

Vanessa: I can sing, I can dance, and I can act.

**clip from "Happiness" video**

Stone: And away from the spotlight, the list goes on.  Let's see, 3 children, 4-wheel drive, playdates, PTA, . . .
Vanessa: You got it. (smiling)
Stone: Church on Sunday; you're a regular suburban mom . . .
Vanessa: That's me--that's me.
Stone:  And, oh yeah, I'm an international movie star and a recording artist in my spare time.
Vanessa: Un-huh, that's right--exactly. (laughing)

--But 15 years ago, the idea of Vanessa Williams in any role other than scorned beauty queen seemed doubtful.

Vanessa: I would have liked a much less bumpier road, a smoother ride, it would have been nice.  But, you know, I feel blessed to, um, to be here, to have taken the path that I did to get here.

--That path seemed paved almost from birth, March 18, 1963, incredibly the announcement read: "Here she is, Miss America!"  She grew up in a small suburban town, just north of NY City, where she and her younger brother were among few African Americans.  It was a happy childhood, but hard lessons came early.

Vanessa: I remember, I think, in 2nd grade, I was on the bus and, ah, it was the 1st time that I had been called a nigger.  And I came home and said, "Mom, what is this?"  and she said, well, it's because you're different than everyone else and the reason why you have to do better than everyone else in the class just to be considered equal is because of your skin color.

--But her music teacher parents also taught her they joy of song and by age 13, Vanessa was raising the roof at her middle school.

Stone: You know, we dug up something on you . . .
Vanessa: Uh-oh. (laughing)
Stone: Something you may have wanted to forget, um, it's a tape, you're on it--there is no question, it's you, Vanessa.
Vanessa: Uh-huh . . .
Stone: 7th grade . . .
Vanessa: Uh-oh! Not Little Mary Sunshine!!
Stone: Little Mary Sunshine!
Vanessa: No! No! (laughing)
Stone: Do you remember any of the lines?
Vanessa: (singing) Swinging, swinging, up in the air, we are winging . . .

**photo & audio tape play** . . .7th grade and that, you know, I got the bug--absolutely.
--And she still had the bug when she graduated high school.  With unabashed confidence, she proclaimed in her yearbook, "I'll see you on Broadway."

Vanessa: My life ambition was to go to New York after I graduated and be on Broadway.  The Miss America Pageant was the furthest thing away from, uh, my mind.

--But in 1983, the pageant was about to find her.  Local scouts saw her perform during her junior year {Jacqueline´s note:  it was actually her sophomore year} at Syracuse University and convinced her to compete.  The notion of becoming the nation's first black Miss America sounded good she says, but the idea of winning scholarship money for drama school sounded even better.

**clip of Vanessa being named Miss New York State, July 16, 1983**
--Within 6 months, she'd become Miss New York and was on the verge of living out the promise of that birth announcement.

**clip of Vanessa prior to pageant: I certainly would be a first and I wouldn't mind that
--I wouldn't mind setting a trend, setting--making waves.**

--But she had no idea just how many waves she would make.
**clip of Vanessa being named Miss America, Sept. 17, 1983**

--Almost from the beginning, the crown weighed heavy.  Being Miss America was demanding enough, being a black Miss America, she says, was even harder.

Vanessa: Particularly when I, you know, would make appearances down South, where I knew that, uh, I was not welcomed, where there were armed guards outside of my motel room because of threats.
Stone: Pretty serious.
Vanessa: Pretty serious, you know.  Death threats to my family, just because I was black.  So my mission was to show them how intelligent I was.

--But it was something she now calls stupid that would derail that mission.  A year before she even pondered the Miss America contest, she was working as a receptionist for a local photographer, who convinced her to pose nude for what she thought would be artistic photographs of herself and another woman. Two years later, even as she appeared in celebrity photo-ops, at White House dinners, and on cereal boxes, she also turned up somewhere else.  The photographer who'd shot her nude had sold those photographs to Penthouse.

Vanessa: It was definitely a surprise, sneak attack.  And these were pictures that were not supposed to be seen by anyone, that, uh, you know, I was guaranteed, "Well, it's an experiment, believe me, trust me, it'll be great--no one'll see them."
Stone: And you believed him.
Vanessa: And I believed him.  I mean, you know, he's not some city slicker guy that I, you know, just met me on the corner of a street, so I thought, uh, no one's going to see them, they're innocent, you know, what's the big deal.
Stone: (skeptical) Innocent?? Is that how you felt about them??
Vanessa: Well, I mean, in actuality, he said they were going to be in silhouette, so I said, well no one's going to be able to see me, anyway. It was no sexual act at all.  You know, I was not caught doing anything that would have been, you know, considered a, you know, sexual act.
Stone: But highly suggestive.
Vanessa: Highly suggestive, yeah, one of those nights that you want to forget.

**clips of headlines and Vanessa resigning**

Stone: How painful was it?
Vanessa: Painful--it was more humiliation, I think, than anything.  And I probably--it was embarrassing for my parents.  Tonight Show, David Letterman, everyone's doing their thing--which completely hurt.  I mean, I'm saying it with a smile on my face right now, but it killed me, it crushed me.  All these comedians are, you now, just laying into me and you know, my mother remembers every joke, remembers every comedian.  And will remind me to this day--oh, you remember what Joan Rivers said about you, well you remember what Chris Rock said about you, so . . . (laughing) . . . My dad said, "Wow, you blew it." And I said, yeah, Dad, I really did.  And that was it--they understood me, they loved me and we were gonna get through it together and that's exactly what we did.

--Vanessa vowed to overcome the stigma of disgrace.  She hired Hollywood publicist, Ramon Hervey, whom she would later marry, though the marriage would not last.  Together they staged Vanessa's comeback.

Stone: How did you turn things around? Because that was quite an image problem to overcome.
Vanessa: Um-hm.  A lot of humor, surrounded myself with lots of friends, uh, and in turns of image, uh, it was a matter of, uh, waiting for the dust to settle and, uh, keeping up with my craft.

**clip from "The Right Stuff" video**

--In 1988, "The Right Stuff" went gold.  4 more smash albums would follow, 9 Grammy nominations, and a half dozen movies, including dealing with Arnold Schwarzenegger in "Eraser" and her latest, "Dance With Me." But the highlight for Vanessa came in 1994, when she made good on that yearbook prediction, starring on Broadway in "Kiss of the Spider Woman" and drawing rave reviews.

Vanessa: It was a collective win for me, for anyone that ever doubted me, for all the people that I had gone to school with, for my parents and community who came, uh, to see me, you know, that was the dream to come true.
Stone: If one of your daughters came to you and said, "Mommy, I want to be in the Miss America Pageant," what would you say?
Vanessa: Uh, they wouldn't, (laughing) uh, they wouldn't because they don't need the scholarship money.  It's a great, uh, organization for a lot of girls that need the scholarship money, but for my kids, my girls, they're not going to need it and it won't even be a consideration; so I wouldn't even have to discuss it with them.
Stone: Was that a no?
Vanessa: That's a no. (laughing)

**clip from "Save the Best for Last"**

Stone: It's ironic that the one Miss America who gave back the crown in disgrace, has arguably become the most successful.
Vanessa: Maybe and, um, but I get defensive when people say I would be nothing had I not had a scandal, which I've heard many people say.  It didn't negate my talent, and the vision that I had, uh, which never changed, you know, it got set back a bit--took a couple of detours--but, you know, now I'm where I've always wanted to be.

**Segment ends with "Save the Best for Last** Stone tells us that a few years ago the Miss America Pageant invited Vanessa back to perform and she declined, they said that the invention is still standing**